5thPercentile.com

Comments

Justin

I absolutely do not understand what the issue is with troops walking around in Ireland. Could someone please clarify the reasoning behind this? I've been searching a couple of websites trying to track down an explanation for this, but none of them clearly explain what crime these soldiers were in the process of comitting.

As I read it, this news item is just infuriating. Whoever this asshole is is lucky that he tried this crap with a bunch of female soldiers, because if he had done this to some male Marines he would have gotten his teeth knocked out.

Mark Lennox

Hi Justin,

You said:
I absolutely do not understand what the issue is with troops walking around in Ireland. Could someone please clarify the reasoning behind this?

I thought I had. But to facilitate you the quote here should explain the crux of the situation

"Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power."

from this article:
http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~nstanton/Ch9.htm

The point then being that the gentleman who arrested the soldiers was quite right as the soldiers by their presence a) threatened our neutrality b) threatened a diplomatic incident as strictly speaking we had been 'invaded' by belligerent troops.

As you (hopefully) read that article you will see that the Irish Nation is in a conundrum, we allow the transport of U.S. troops through Shannon while they are en route to Iraq which is strictly forbidden if we are to claim neutrality.

The Irish Government (and I guess we the people, as there are no protests against this..) try to claim neutrality still as they say the airport is open to all troops from all nations - a nod toward the need to take neither one side nor the other in a war. Also there is a lot of hand waving and vague explanations that certain areas of Shannon have been designated non-national territory (all marines etc. are kept segregated in areas that have no access to the greater public)

You said:
As I read it, this news item is just infuriating.

I'm sorry for your troubles Justin. This is a serious and complex matter and requires some objectivity.

You said:
Whoever this asshole is is lucky that he tried this crap with a bunch of female soldiers, because if he had done this to some male Marines he would have gotten his teeth knocked out.

Let's tackle the subjects you raised their one at a time.

First - the chap in question seems level headed and informed to me.

Second - I'm sure if you spoke this sentence to a mixed group of female and male marines you would find yourself beating a hasty retreat. The female members of the marines fight just as hard and are just as tough as their male counterparts. To insult and denigrate them in this off-handed fashion is disgusting. I take it that you are a U.S. citizen? These marines, both female and male, are dying for your rights. Have some respect!!

Third - if the hypothetical male marines had knocked his teeth out they would, in a just world, have been court-martialed. Hardly a fitting end to what I would hope was a worthy career.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings you still have on the subject.

Justin

I still don't quite understand. If they entered the country, they must have been, at some point, given permission to enter. If the Irish government decided to let them in, then the responsibility for that decision should be on their shoulders. There is no reason to harass individual soldiers over a decision the government made.

As for the police, I can understand them mocking this guy, not only for the reason above but also that I'm certain there must be real crimes (like theft or murder) going on someplace that could use some attention.

And I'd like to again applaud this guy's courage because most Americans have no idea what citizen's arrest even is. If I was walking down the street minding my own business and some local suddenly tried to accost me like this, I would feel very threatened. This could have been a very ugly confrontation (hence my comment about the Marines)

Mark Lennox

Justin said:
I still don't quite understand. If they entered the country, they must have been, at some point, given permission to enter. If the Irish government decided to let them in, then the responsibility for that decision should be on their shoulders. There is no reason to harass individual soldiers over a decision the government made.

The issue of our neutrality is a serious matter for some people in this country at the moment. There are those of us who feel that our government has already comprimised our neutrality by allowing U.S. troops passage through Shannon.

Strictly speaking the soldiers should not have been in uniform inside or outside of the airport. We have had to swallow the goverments assertion that our neutrality is preserved by segregating the soldiers in Shannon airport.

The individual who made the report is an active anti-war protester and was quite right in his actions against uniformed members of a belligerent army in Ireland. Strictly speaking they shouldnt be there, they shouldnt even be in Shannon if we wish to claim neutrality.

Our Government shirks every responsibility it can with regard to policies like this leaving the policing of policies up to ad-hoc actions by the Gardai or private individuals and not passing laws until sufficient public outcry is raised (sufficient outcry means a threat to them getting voted in again..)

The Gardai (police) in this country are a joke. They come down in force on individuals and are nowehere to be seen when real crimes are happening. What the Gardai excel at - bullying, intimidation, drinking tea, breaking the law, avoiding their duties.

All Gardai are required to display their numbers on their shoulders as identification - these are more and more often removed as a means of initimidation. The fact that the Gardai involved found it necessary to arrive in force, all either plain clothes (different from uniformed guards with no numbers) and others without their numbers shows that they were out to intimidate the reporter involved.

If the Gardai had been acting lawfully then why would it have been necessary to remove their numbers?

Citizens arrest basically gives a citizen the right to detain someone who has committed a crime until an officer of the law can be found to properly detain them. It allows for use of sufficient force if the citizen believes that the criminal will flee before the officer arrives.

I absolutely do not understand what the issue is with troops walking around in Ireland. Could someone please clarify the reasoning behind this? I've been searching a couple of websites trying to track down an explanation for this, but none of them clearly explain what crime these soldiers were in the process of comitting.

As I read it, this news item is just infuriating. Whoever this asshole is is lucky that he tried this crap with a bunch of female soldiers, because if he had done this to some male Marines he would have gotten his teeth knocked out.

Hi Justin,

You said:
I absolutely do not understand what the issue is with troops walking around in Ireland. Could someone please clarify the reasoning behind this?

I thought I had. But to facilitate you the quote here should explain the crux of the situation

"Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power."

from this article:
http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~nstanton/Ch9.htm

The point then being that the gentleman who arrested the soldiers was quite right as the soldiers by their presence a) threatened our neutrality b) threatened a diplomatic incident as strictly speaking we had been 'invaded' by belligerent troops.

As you (hopefully) read that article you will see that the Irish Nation is in a conundrum, we allow the transport of U.S. troops through Shannon while they are en route to Iraq which is strictly forbidden if we are to claim neutrality.

The Irish Government (and I guess we the people, as there are no protests against this..) try to claim neutrality still as they say the airport is open to all troops from all nations - a nod toward the need to take neither one side nor the other in a war. Also there is a lot of hand waving and vague explanations that certain areas of Shannon have been designated non-national territory (all marines etc. are kept segregated in areas that have no access to the greater public)

You said:
As I read it, this news item is just infuriating.

I'm sorry for your troubles Justin. This is a serious and complex matter and requires some objectivity.

You said:
Whoever this asshole is is lucky that he tried this crap with a bunch of female soldiers, because if he had done this to some male Marines he would have gotten his teeth knocked out.

Let's tackle the subjects you raised their one at a time.

First - the chap in question seems level headed and informed to me.

Second - I'm sure if you spoke this sentence to a mixed group of female and male marines you would find yourself beating a hasty retreat. The female members of the marines fight just as hard and are just as tough as their male counterparts. To insult and denigrate them in this off-handed fashion is disgusting. I take it that you are a U.S. citizen? These marines, both female and male, are dying for your rights. Have some respect!!

Third - if the hypothetical male marines had knocked his teeth out they would, in a just world, have been court-martialed. Hardly a fitting end to what I would hope was a worthy career.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings you still have on the subject.

I still don't quite understand. If they entered the country, they must have been, at some point, given permission to enter. If the Irish government decided to let them in, then the responsibility for that decision should be on their shoulders. There is no reason to harass individual soldiers over a decision the government made.

As for the police, I can understand them mocking this guy, not only for the reason above but also that I'm certain there must be real crimes (like theft or murder) going on someplace that could use some attention.

And I'd like to again applaud this guy's courage because most Americans have no idea what citizen's arrest even is. If I was walking down the street minding my own business and some local suddenly tried to accost me like this, I would feel very threatened. This could have been a very ugly confrontation (hence my comment about the Marines)

Justin said:
I still don't quite understand. If they entered the country, they must have been, at some point, given permission to enter. If the Irish government decided to let them in, then the responsibility for that decision should be on their shoulders. There is no reason to harass individual soldiers over a decision the government made.

The issue of our neutrality is a serious matter for some people in this country at the moment. There are those of us who feel that our government has already comprimised our neutrality by allowing U.S. troops passage through Shannon.

Strictly speaking the soldiers should not have been in uniform inside or outside of the airport. We have had to swallow the goverments assertion that our neutrality is preserved by segregating the soldiers in Shannon airport.

The individual who made the report is an active anti-war protester and was quite right in his actions against uniformed members of a belligerent army in Ireland. Strictly speaking they shouldnt be there, they shouldnt even be in Shannon if we wish to claim neutrality.

Our Government shirks every responsibility it can with regard to policies like this leaving the policing of policies up to ad-hoc actions by the Gardai or private individuals and not passing laws until sufficient public outcry is raised (sufficient outcry means a threat to them getting voted in again..)

The Gardai (police) in this country are a joke. They come down in force on individuals and are nowehere to be seen when real crimes are happening. What the Gardai excel at - bullying, intimidation, drinking tea, breaking the law, avoiding their duties.

All Gardai are required to display their numbers on their shoulders as identification - these are more and more often removed as a means of initimidation. The fact that the Gardai involved found it necessary to arrive in force, all either plain clothes (different from uniformed guards with no numbers) and others without their numbers shows that they were out to intimidate the reporter involved.

If the Gardai had been acting lawfully then why would it have been necessary to remove their numbers?

Citizens arrest basically gives a citizen the right to detain someone who has committed a crime until an officer of the law can be found to properly detain them. It allows for use of sufficient force if the citizen believes that the criminal will flee before the officer arrives.